The following is the interactive discussion session of the second day of the forum. The original text is as follows:

    Dong Zhonglang: On the topic of "the relationship between the Internet and the second-hand market," it is a trendy and fashionable topic. For those of us who grew up in this generation, when we reached 30, I remember my first time going online was in Xiamen, still dial-up, because we had a group of German colleagues who all wanted to read German newspapers but couldn't. That was in 1996, still dial-up. Time flies; our next generation has grown up on the Internet. The entire Internet ecosystem is undergoing disruptive changes, and this industry often sees disruptive things emerge. I have a few basic concepts: in the future, there will be no such thing as the Internet, no such thing as e-commerce—commerce will all be electronic, and everything will be Internet-based. In this sense, our used equipment market will see many Internet-based ideas. The phone I'm using today is a Xiaomi phone. Xiaomi is a company created by Lei Jun, achieving a valuation of 10 billion USD in 3 years, which is unimaginable for traditional entrepreneurs—how can a company go from zero to 10 billion USD in 3 years? Recently, he made a bet with Dong Mingzhu, saying he would catch up with Gree in 5 years. I would absolutely put my bet on Lei Jun; I think he will definitely catch up with Gree. What is different about his approach? I recently bought a Xiaomi 3 and a LeTV TV at home, and I think they are using Internet thinking to transform traditional industries. If we connect Internet thinking with the aftermarket or used equipment, what does that mean?

    First, we must certainly use Internet thinking to transform this industry, following the Internet's DNA. The Internet's DNA first requires customers to come on board, then to make a certain product or enterprise极致 (extreme), and then use this extremity to connect these customers, and then promote, and then think about its future commercial value. Whether we look at Xiaomi or LeTV now, it's all like this. This subverts many of our things. The same goes for used equipment. Just now a lawyer friend said we want to create a risk control system and have all used equipment manufacturers or dealers use it. I think this concept is good. The question is why they would use it. So if you solve this problem, that is, we make a product or functionality极致, for example, now everyone's second-hand information is not circulating, we have no way to evaluate. Suppose someone can take a photo and upload a few data points, and then very standardly evaluate how much this thing should be priced in the market, or trace its information from the day it left the factory. I think why not use it? So I believe, first, the Internet will create new business models, and the valuation system of these business models is completely different from our current one. For example, when we evaluate a company like Fronius, you look at how much profit you made last year, how much revenue you generated. But the Internet is not like that; the Internet looks at how many people are using it, how much data you have, and whether you can挖掘 (excavate) the value behind this data.

    Second, it will solve the problem of heavy asset financing. Don't use our money; our money is the most expensive. You work hard to build a company, and finally someone comes and says I'll give you 50 million, and then takes your shares, and eventually your company will become very large. For example, Mr. Hou of Fronius, if he really achieves 10 billion, we only gave him a small amount of money. When he reaches 10 billion, I would take away 2 billion, which is obviously unreasonable from the perspective of entrepreneurs creating value. So whose money should you use? It's best to use the bank's money, the money of financial leasing companies. The problem is, why would the bank give you money? Your risk is too high, your information is not transparent. If I give you money, my risk is very high, and my cost is pulled very high. If the Internet is added, every vehicle, every maintenance action, every service action, every attribute is made very clear through the Internet. For the bank, this risk is very small, so there is no problem for the bank to give you money, and you can solve the financing problem.

    Third, change the company's form. The most troublesome thing about used equipment is that it is spread all over China, with different attributes, different service providers, different customers, and the unclear historical debt problems. If you use Internet thinking to do this, you might build a platform where every transaction, every supplier, every merchant can perform all services for second-hand machines on this platform. If so, your company's form is different. I don't know the final answer of Internet plus used equipment, but I think there is a basic point: if you use Internet thinking to run your company, your company's market value will at least increase 5 or 6 times. If you use Internet thinking, your company's value will be much greater, much greater than using traditional models. Then it's not hard to understand why companies like Xiaomi and LeTV, with sales of 1 or 2 million, are valued at 100 million. Why are they worth 100 million? Because they have a beautiful story, a beautiful theme. Our traditional industries lack this thinking, so I hope everyone will think seriously.

    Yu Xiaomei: Thank you, Mr. Dong, for analyzing the issue of Internet plus the used equipment market so thoroughly. In this industry, everyone's long-term mindset has been on operations, transactions, buying and selling. Entering the used equipment industry and starting this work for so many years, all companies tell me how to buy and sell used equipment, how you can develop the market for me. I think our thinking, our approach, must be transformed. If we don't change our concepts, if we remain in the original role, we are not developing, nor can we survive. I think we have only one road, and that is a dead end. Please, several of you, also share your thoughts on this issue.

    Liu Gong: First, thank the Secretary-General. I am from Guangxi Liugong, and we have also taken some actions in aftermarket business and financial leasing. This is my first time attending an industry conference, because I used to be in sales. Personally, the company is already very close to the industry, and I hope to deepen contact with industry leaders and gain more support. Just now, after listening to Mr. Dong's report, I feel there is a collision. Some time ago, I had some exchanges with friends in the industry, and we also made some conjectures. Mr. Dong just mentioned WeChat and the Internet. Of course, one of our conjectures is that WeChat will definitely enter our after-sales field, and very quickly, or Liugong will soon integrate WeChat into the after-sales service field. This is what we want to do. Another is the application of big data. Any data analysis, including the entire second-hand machine market in the future, I believe cannot do without big data. What work should we do in this part? There are many benchmark enterprises in the industry, including Komatsu, Caterpillar, Sany, Zoomlion, and other excellent companies. They have done a lot of work in big data. I believe that in this area, these front-end experiences will definitely be applied to the back end in the future.

    I just looked at the topic the Secretary-General gave me. He hopes I can ask Mr. Dong a question: What is the key point for the docking of China's used equipment industry with capital? Mr. Dong already touched on some in the first question. Mr. Dong comes from industrial vehicles. What I want to understand is, for construction machinery equipment, mainly loaders and excavators, you just said even a pig can be blown into the sky. Has the风口 (outlet) for loaders and excavators arrived?

    Dong Zhonglang: Just now I was also talking with Mr. Liu. Our construction machinery industry is a bit different from the forklift industry. Construction machinery industry enterprises are relatively strong, and brand owners are relatively strong, which is the case all over the world. Usually, dealers are subordinate to manufacturers, so all dealers are reluctant to offend those above them. But in reality, this is a game. Actually, upstream brand owners also dare not offend dealers. If this is not a situation of common prosperity or mutual benefit and win-win, no one can play this game.

    From the perspective of capital, when we look at construction machinery dealers, where do we think their value lies? If they buy things and then sell them, listening to the upstream in everything, the upstream basically won't let you starve, but it's impossible to make a fortune because I control the entire value chain. So for them, they need to find many shining points to connect with capital, which is actually quite difficult. But don't forget, the industry is cyclical. From the perspective of manufacturers, Chinese people have not experienced cycles. Up to now, even the 2008 financial crisis, even the current construction machinery crisis, these are not called cycles. When the real cycle comes, it will truly return to the original form. As Buffett said, see who is not wearing pants, and it turns out a lot of them are not wearing pants.